How to Maximize your Gala and Auction with Dean Crownover

Hey, welcome back to the show. I’m here today with Dean Crownover, Dean. How are you doing today?

Hey Travis, are you doing well? Thanks

I am excited to have you on You are the benefit auctioneer and the author of Paddles Up, and I just so happen to have a copy right here for the viewers watching this thing. Those who listen on audio, I’m holding up a book and you should be watching the video anyway. You can grab your free copy at paddlesup.com. How long have you been in the auctioneer game?

So, what exactly is that?

14 years?

14 years, yeah, so professionally. Let’s call it 12 years because for the first two years I was flying pro bono and didn’t realize it was a job. I did it pro bono and volunteered for fun because I was an actor when I didn’t have a paid job. I would do that, and I did an, you know, an auction for little fundraisers. I had no idea that you needed his skills. I made it.

You made it up. We’re just going to wing this thing. It’s going to be great.

Yeah, there were none of those shows yet, right? So far, no storage wars or anything like that. I guess for what I needed to be doing, it was probably the dumbest thing these little nonprofits ever did because they didn’t book me. I was free, right, but to say hey, bring on the free guy who didn’t know what he was doing, but the entertainment factor for them was at a 10. The fundraising was most likely done at A2.

It’s also entertaining to watch you stumble all over the place. Everything you’re doing is a 10.

But you know, what a thing they loved. They were like, “Oh my God, that’s the most fun we’ve had in a long time,” and they said, “I live in Atlanta, so the state of Georgia, where you do have to be licensed and you have to check some states.” You have to have some. You don’t. The state of Georgia said “hey because people started calling and I started charging a nominal fee, and they said, hey, you know you have to have a license here.

And that’s when I got clued in because I went to 10 days nonstop and this was over an Easter weekend of auctioneer school. 99 points out of 9% are all legal logistics. I have contracts that have nothing to do with me and my type of auction. I don’t handle money.

I do this for all the auctioneers I do for, but I learned a ton. Then you have to take your test for the state of Georgia, which I keep up every year. You must have an escrow account to use my license. I’ve had an escrow account for 11 years that I’ve never touched because the state of Georgia needs access to it. In case you were ripping somebody off again, I don’t touch money. There are a lot of barriers. Tennessee is the worst of Tennessee. I think you have, or the best if you look at it this way.

You’ve heard of it. You heard it here first; Tennessee is the worst.

I mean the best because you have to be an apprentice. I believe it is two years before you can become an auctioneer. So, the barrier is vetting. You know, down in the South. It’s a lot, and so I like it in New York and California. I don’t think you have to be licensed. But it caused me to join the Auctioneers Association and it caused me to go through their benefit auctioneer’s specialist designation, and I was the first in Georgia to get it. It’s a designation, it’s a real deal. I’ve got a real way. It’s on the back. Because of the book, I think I learned more about the craft of selling and helping nonprofits because of that. And I have got to tell you, it’s changed my whole career and my whole life because I didn’t think I had a career in this.

Now I do.

What was the difference between winging it and doing it professionally? It has a fun factor of ten. Did the fun factor go down?

The fun factor changed. It’s still fun, but there’s become logic and a true goal. and a skill. Now that I had the seriousness, I became a 10 because what I’d learned is that these nonprofits are on the front line. They’re underpaid and overworked. They’re out there assisting their client, and I’ve got to tell you when I realize I’ve got a good job, I get a little jealous. I’m wearing a tux. I’m not sweating it like they are every day. So, what’s the big deal? I need to get as much money as possible for my non-profits so they can keep the fight up. And they’re on the front line. So, they can keep that fight up. That never leaves my mind. They are the true heroes, and the people they’re helping are the heroes. I’m not the hero. I’m not the star. I’m just a goofball up on stage. But that’s why I keep learning and learning and learning. How can I? What ideas can I bring to the table that will make their lives easier?

Oh, I like that. I like that, yeah.

That was the big change.

Yeah, taking that ownership, that responsibility, you understand your part in the series and the work in the evolution of everything that a pilot needs. So that’s good. I like that. You mentioned that you were kind of entertainment because you’re bumbling around. I don’t know about everyone else. I know some of those shows out there where your kind of just waiting for the disaster to happen every episode, like Frasier, where there’s always a part where it’s just a mess.

This is my least favorite part. I can see that I can never watch that part of the show because you just see the train wreck coming the whole time. And you know what happens when it happens? Everly blows up every episode. That’s when I go refresh my beverage or whatever, but so many people just love that part, but I hate drama if it’s mine. But if it’s somebody else, give me a front-row seat. I never understood.

I like watching Train Wreck, which, like Frazier, is one of my favorite shows. I loved the train wreck.

I used to do murder mysteries. I used to do every kind of corporate entertainment. I did a little bit of film and a little bit of TV. Lots and lots of commercials. I was a hand model. I was an Elvis impersonator. I was the Forrest Gump impersonator. You name it, and I did it. Anything to avoid having to work a real job, and I was eking out a nice, medium-sized life here in Atlanta before the big film boom, and anything to keep my head above water.

Thank God I had my wife. She kept us from having to work at Home Depot. All those years of doing that because I’m probably in my 30th year of entertainment. Those chops taught me how to be on stage, how to be appropriate on stage, so winging it still had a set of rules.

It’s just that I didn’t understand the skill of selling and asking for money for a non-profit, right? That’s the part I had to learn, which in turn upped my entertainment game. Because of that skill, I had to learn how to entertain a little differently and meld them together. Now that it’s been a great lesson and I’m going home at night instead of making It’s all about me going home at night and my wife working at a nonprofit for the rest of her life after working at Home Depot and then going home to watch the show. How much did you raise for him tonight? Man, that’s a normal conversation in our house. How much did you raise? Oh man, the crowd was crying because we heard this testimony, or I didn’t know this about this disease. It’s really kind of changed our relationship for the better, which has always been tight, but I don’t know if it’s always around just feels. It’s good to do what I do.

Yeah, it’s easier to support someone when the focus isn’t on what you’re doing. It’s what you’re doing on behalf of or for another organization. That’s why people love police, fire, EMS, and the military so much because they’re not doing it for themselves. The vast majority of them are doing it for other people. It’s the same with nonprofit work; you’re doing it for someone else. Yeah, there’s some feel-good. Of course, there is, but you’re doing it on behalf of somebody else, which is wonderful. So, they were going to break down and get into your book, and we’re going to talk about things like the “Fund A Need” method, and what that framework looks like. We’re going to talk a little bit about live auctions and silent auctions. The coolest thing I want to talk about is the golden ticket, but we can get to that in a little bit. What is the funding framework? What is that?

As a result, the funding requirement has several names. The mission moment is raised by the paddle. I’m all about branding it, by the way. Call it yours, meaning put an action verb in there. Whatever you do, as I previously stated, I have a piece of music that he called his “Symphony,” and they titled it “Share the Music.” You know something that works for you, but it is now a financial need. And that’s just the term I use.

The “Fund A Need” is the biggest money-maker outside of sponsorships at an event, and it was invented probably 15 years ago by I think the gentleman’s name was J, and I didn’t know him very well. I met him once or twice, but he kind of invented this concept. It’s just caught on, it’s here. They can give any amount of donation that they want, from a dollar to a million dollars. It’s a very organized way of giving at a gala.

And you don’t have to buy anything or go get items to sell. You don’t have to do any of that. It’s based on a testimonial video from a non-profit organization from, uh, you know, somebody that they serve. And it’s, ladies, and gentlemen, what we need to raise $50,000 in 5 minutes. And we call out different levels, starting high, going low. We will give 5000 and we will give information about what that 5000 could do, and we will collect and move to the next level. So, I’ve become a specialist in it, and I adore it. It is because I see people band together and make dreams come true by reaching these goals for the non-profit.

Do you find, in your experience, that it’s easier to get donations? If you can say, hey, your $1000 equals this output, or if it’s more ambiguous, which one of those works better?

You know what? They both work. So, let’s call it 80% of my non-profits. When we’re building this, I consult with my clients the minute they book me. I’m usually a year in advance. I’m a consultant. That’s first and foremost what I do. And then the rest is on stage. So, when we’re building the levels and talking about it if they can connect with what it is, do I, uh, have horse therapy? Well, that’s easy, you know. So that’s very simple to construct, and you’re right in the mind of a donor or giver. They can connect that, and we don’t earmark the money we’re saying. Here’s what it could do, and maybe we can give him a couple of examples. However, when I’m researching medical conditions such as muscular dystrophy or LLS, it’s research, so it’s kind of hard to put a dollar value on that research. If we have done the emotional connection correctly, that’s the testimonial and it explains why it’s so important. I don’t think connecting the dollar with what it could do is as important in both cases. So, if you can connect it, that’s fantastic.

That’s interesting to hear. How about the type of video they use? I’m a huge fan of this, like the Triumph video. This is where they were, and this is now what they are doing amazingly well. I’ve seen a lot of those. I’m a huge fan of those. I’m not a huge fan of the ones everyone knows, like the Sarah McLachlan sad story. Yeah, sick puppies, like, what do you recommend, one or the other? Have you seen them? Use both throughout your auctioneering career of 11 to 12 professionally, and 14 casually in your years of service.

Yes, so no. In the commercial, like with Sarah there, so that’s a whole different thing, right? That’s a commercial trying to get you to join Patreon. What works once a month, or once a year at the very least? There are two kinds of videos. There’s an umbrella video, and this is what I recommend. Hey, there are these two videos: an umbrella video and an umbrella video, all about what you do in 3 minutes or less. If you make a video over that, we can’t use it. At the event, people will start to go to the bar.

So we want him focused, so an umbrella video is great because let’s assume half those guests, 3/4 of those guests, have been just brought there by a friend, so they don’t know what to do. So, they’re learning. They learn in 3 minutes. Alternatively, why should they give? Right, so those are important.

If you make a long video, put it online before they come to the event, tell them to go watch it, and then We’re going to play a 3-minute version when they get there, right? So, it still works. The other kind of video which I’m a big fan of is if we have a testimonial. A live testimonial? Let’s just say it’s a family that overcame something, like a disease, or, you know, are going through a hardship. It’s about a two-or three-minute video of a day in the life of that person and their family. So, it doesn’t have to be pulled like a heartstring. It’s informational, but it’s emotional. You don’t have to work this one out because the audience gets it.

Yeah, yeah. But the video itself is right. The “day in the life of” do they show the video and it stops just as How hard is it? Or do they include the part where the organization came in and now their life is different? Do they stop at just the sad stuff, or do they include the change?

I like the change. Yeah, I’m all about the change, and if that change wasn’t in the video, then it needs to be in the testimonial live speech. But I’m with you. I call it rags to riches because what was your life before this nonprofit became a partner with you, and what is it after? So yes because people were still at the gala. We still want to feel good. I have got to tell you; I sat through it. I do 80 to 100 of these a year, and I hear a lot of the testimonials. The toughest ones

Because I’m a parent, the toughest ones are literally when a parent gets up. I had a couple come up a couple of months ago, and they’d lost their child to suicide less than a year prior. And there they are up there, giving this testimonial because this nonprofit still helped them. There’s still the point being that they are still giving a positive. Even after all these horrible, horrible things happened, you know, they’re given a positive of police help because our son couldn’t be helped, but you’re going to be helping a bunch of other families prevent this. So even in the worst case, they’re still spinning.

What do they say is the silver lining? Right, so yeah, I like the rags to riches story.

Transformational stories are the best ones, especially when they showcase what the nonprofit does. I know I do a lot of research and have a lot of discussions with nonprofits. Sometimes the conversations are like, “What is it that you do because you can’t find it anywhere online?” On their website or anywhere on social media, what is it that they are doing? And now if you’re in the nonprofit world, you’re listening, right? Now don’t keep that stuff. The secret is to don’t hold that back until the gala or the gala to showcase whether you show people every day what on Earth it is that you do and what the transformation is. If you’ve got legal concerns and you can’t use her name, don’t use her name. Say, “Hey, we had a single mom come in today and we were able to give her cash directly to meet her needs.“

So, they could do this, others say that. Don’t say Melissa Thompson is 39. Do you live in C?

Don’t give out their names, but showcase what you’re doing for people, because don’t make it hard for people to understand what it is that you do and how you’re impacting your community.

Well, early on, I had clients. Who were you afraid of? They do what they do in a positive manner. They’re changing lives, like mine. Why wouldn’t you get on a plane? Why won’t you get on a bandstand and say that this is important? So, here’s what I do now. Well, a lot of them have got no. If you’re going to work with me, we’re going to promote. What you’ve done here is education for your donors. And I guarantee you, even the donor that follows you the most doesn’t know everything you do, doesn’t know every program that you do, right? So, here’s what I tell him.

There are two points that we can promote at the event. What I call a PowerPoint billboard It’s the rotating slides on the screen during the cocktail hour when they’re walking around talking, you know, hanging out with somebody waiting at the bar for their drink, and they just look up at the screen and they see.

And I’m, I say, writing 10 to 15 slides of did you know just one fact? Did you know? Thanks to your donations, you helped 6000 families this year not become homeless or whatever it is I say in little sound bites, so do that on the rotating billboard. Then when we get to the “Fund A Need”, we’re going to pick six or seven very empathetic facts that I will share with the audience, and it will become his great food for thought and every little fact. Hopefully, I will need to give more. I was thinking about giving it the $100 level, but you know what I’m going to do? I’m going to give it the $250 level. That’s what I hope is working.

Oh, I love that. How did COVID change the landscape of the gala? How did it affect the funder’s need for giving?

Luckily, it didn’t. The two shockers were because I was one of the first to go virtual on the East Coast, so I was the week everything shut down, like March 13th. I think on the 20th, I had to do my first one. And you know, we didn’t know what? We’re doing it because we didn’t know if they were going to respond.

a high level of entertainment. I didn’t know what you were doing.

Yeah, oh. Yeah, you know Luckily, I understood how to talk to a camera, and I just assumed there was somebody on the other side, hopefully smiling and listening. But yeah, when there are only three people in the studio and you’re not sure if it’s landing or not. The figures that began to emerge

Sponsorships stayed and didn’t go away. Sponsorships upped their game, so if you were a sponsor during that part, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you to all of you out there who help nonprofits. Then there’s the giving. It didn’t change. I have some clients we made more for. In Fund A Need, the big reason was that it didn’t matter who was in the room because there was no room. It’s now worldwide. Virtual changed the game, and all of that is now brought to a gala. I tell him. Open up your funding needs online a week before the event and keep them open. A week after the event, because there are going to be a ton of people who can’t come.

Let them give. I’ve got clients. We walk into the room, and they’ve made 10 grand. That was the week before, so we can add that to the number at the end. And then I’ve got clients who kept it open for another week. and made another 10 grand, so it’s now a new best practice.

Oh, I love that. I’d love to hear that. I’m glad that this stuff worked out. I know that, from my experience, all the people that continued to ask in whatever capacity during the pandemic know they lost.

They may be the 250 or the 500 below, but they gained 100 thousand $10,000 donors because they understood people with that level of cash. I understand that the need is greater at those times, and there were a lot of people that I talked to that felt uncomfortable. Asking was like your need didn’t go away; you’re feeding people who are still hungry. Don’t stop asking. Just because you feel awkward doesn’t mean you’re feeling awkward. It’s going to impact them because if they’re not eating, that is a life-or-death thing.

Those are people that could end up dying because they didn’t eat. Today, I am not in that category. I could probably go a couple of days without eating myself. But yeah, you need both.

I was shocked. I didn’t know people would give because we were in such a crisis. You know, I assume everybody is just going to guard their money because we didn’t know what was going to happen. Not once, Travis. Not once did I see Can anybody hold back? The numbers kept rising then, and then when I started doing live events last August, I did my last virtual last August, so from August to now, it’s been nonstop live events, most of them here in Georgia, even though I travel nationally and still do the same thing.

First, let’s call it August. through the end of that year last year. Doubling the funding needed fewer people in the room because they had to space out and they only invited the top givers. And they were having smaller events live. making double the money in the fund. People wanted to support, and they wanted to give, and I tell you, it’s been fantastic. People are good. You know you and I get to see the good in people for the most part.

Well, the good is there for everyone if we look hard enough. Some people make it just a little bit harder to find that gold than others do, but you know those prospectors that went out to California during the gold rush? They sifted through tons of dirt. Tons of dirt, days, weeks, and months of sifting to find a few tiny gold nuggets. So don’t give up. Don’t give up hope. I hope people are good.

They are, agreed, and I just happen to get to see 3 to 300 to 1000 of them at a time. Those nuggets in one room?

Yeah, collect your nuggets. Call Dean. He’ll come and have an event for you.

That’s right.

Get your nuggets together. As I was reading your book, you talked a little bit about a fireside chat.

What is a fireside chat?

Came out of virtuality. So that’s for the funding. So, when it used to be when I would do an event, and this is before we even knew, we could virtually go out there and ask for money too. I would have for each level what the level could do or not. I’m a big fan of putting facts about the level. Did you know? Here’s a negative. Did you know that there were at any given time in Atlanta? 10,000 homeless? On the street, let’s say I’m working for a homeless shelter and, and this is all hypothetical, but your $1000. You can get 100 people off the street each night and feed and house them. So, we would do a fact and then I would ask for people to raise When we went to virtual, because there was no audience and because we had to be socially distanced, it would usually just be the executive director or the CEO of the nonprofit and myself on camera.

And so instead of me just talking straight at the camera and them standing at their podium doing nothing, I said, “Well, why don’t we have a conversation.” And I’ll do those same facts, but I’m going to turn it over to you. I’m going to say something like, “I understand there are 10,000 homeless right now here in Atlanta.” This and that executive director.

What will this $1000 do for you?

And then let her or him go. Explain it in 30 seconds or less. So, last August, when I decided to return to live, I just said, “Well, let’s see if it works on stage and a bunch of clients were willing to do it, and it’s been gangbusters.” So instead of me just talking at you or to you, here’s why you need to give.

Now it’s like a conversation. If you will, and it has done so exceptionally well because I believe that when you hear from the non-profit, and you get the money motivator in sync, he just goes back to more food for thought. Why do I have to give $100 when I could give two $5,000 or $1,000 gifts? I need to give more than I thought I was going to give.

See, I like that. I like that engagement. I love that personal nature. It seems that there are a lot of events out there where it’s just kind of talking at an audience. And if you can get them included, if you can bring them into the conversation, you can be more conversational. I think that’s better for everybody.

Let me say something one of my clients took several steps further. They have their own, uh, breast cancer rehab, so it’s physical therapy, and a lot of people never get to meet the therapist. So, they had six of them on stage with me, and each one of them took a level. So, I would ask a question, and one would step up and answer, and then the next one. So, the audience got to meet them at the same time, which gave them a boost. So, I thought that was a brilliant idea.

Oh, I like that. I wish I could include that in my next one. I will do whatever that is. We’ll figure that one out.

Call me, I’ll talk you through it.

In your book, you get into things like live auctions, silent auctions, and a few different things. How do people decide what they should get for a live auction? Where do they find the items?

Today, people are starting to give again. Before COVID, there were two ways it was counting on that non-profit board. This is why the board is usually very helpful because they have access. Because these are all the things themselves, the other option was to go through consignment shops, which is still an option. Some companies put together exotic packages and travel usually, and they charge the nonprofit a certain price called a “reserve price.” So long as you sell it. And that non-profit keeps whatever is above the reserve price. So, if it sells for 10 grand and the reserve price is two grand, the nonprofit keeps the 8 grand. So, both of those were always working, so when virtual or when COVID and virtual happened, it was very hard to get things. So, we relied on consignment, but nobody was traveling then, right? Now what I’m seeing is people. A lot of my nonprofits are starting to get it all.

They’re relying on consignment companies that they may not have before COVID for a couple of extra items, like something to use in the golden ticket.

That is big! And, uh, I call it a bucket list because everybody who came out of COVID back to these events is buying bucket list trips because I think we took stock in the last couple of years, or we could die any minute.

I’m going on the bucket list. I’m selling Tuscany right now. I’ve always sold Tuscany. You know, I sold 16 the other night and 13 the month before at an event I’m selling out. Want to do their bucket list stuff? So, it’s kind of interesting to see the changes.

I found it interesting. I was in the Middle East when COVID started, and I had been traveling in 2019 and then COVID stole all my travel plans because I had more set up like my bucket list items, like I’ve been to every continent in the northern hemisphere, but I have not been to Australia, South America, or Antarctica.

So, like, no kidding I started reading the book earlier today. It’s like bucket list trips, and I’m like, “Oh, can I take a cruise down to Antarctica?” You can travel to Argentina by plane. You can go to Buenos Aires, and there’s another port that I probably can’t pronounce correctly. You get on a cruise ship. And you go down to a couple of islands, and you go down to the Antarctic peninsula, and you can get down and see all the animals. I don’t think you play with the Penguins, but you know, for us, we saw the Penguins in Dubai a couple of years ago.

Do these trips do this stuff, please? Dear God, but talking to my dad, he retired just a couple of years ago. He’s a veteran of the military. I’m a retired military officer. Get on Mac flights, go around. He’s on a trip right now. He’s got a camper. The highest gas prices in recent memory He’s going through places like Yosemite and all up and down the West Coast. I’m going on Hwy 1 because what better? There’s no better time than now, and people haven’t got to take advantage of that.

Yeah, it doesn’t matter about, like, uh, so we just got back from Hawaii. Now, normally I’m like, “Can we afford to go to Hawaii?”

Well, it changed in March. It was What’s on our bucket list? Well, we kind of can’t afford to go now because we don’t know when we’re going to have this time again, and I’m so glad we did. Right now, we have a 15-year-old. His life is changing every day. College is coming up. I was like, Let’s do it now, and really, gas prices are damned, and flights are damned because we’re going to do it. We were sensible. But man, I’m so glad we did, and I think that’s what’s happening with a lot of the buyers now. I don’t know if that’s going to continue, meaning that we’ve been riding this wave of people finally getting out of the gala world and they’re starting to buy these trips because they know they can go again.

If a variant comes up, is that going to slow them down? Are they finally going to go? You know what?

Maybe I need to hold somebody; maybe I’ll take a trip that’s too New York or the beach or something. I don’t know. My job is to identify the waves. I will try to figure out where we are and tell my client to help them decide on the type of things we need to have.

I know I’ve got a friend, Doctor Craig Hanson. He runs a university in New Zealand, and I just got the invite from him because New Zealand is back open again. I don’t know this for a fact, but I think New Zealand is the most liberal country on the planet, so they were hard-locked down. You couldn’t leave town. I saw an article where three guys were planning a jailbreak.

They went to KFC in a neighboring town during COVID. God forbid you to start listening at home. Decide what that means to you. I just thought it was ridiculous. Some people like, well, yeah, you can’t travel wherever you’re at on the spectrum. I understand, I still love you, but like arresting people from going to KFC, KFC is a criminal for offering all those calories in such delicious packages.

It shouldn’t be the people going there that are the criminals, but…

You know, people just wanted to get out and bust free, and you know, I guess they’re doing it now. I’m surprised that Taco Bell was not open.

Well, I don’t know, did they have to go to KFC? They’re available. I’ve got to look into that before I go see my buddy Craig down in New Zealand. I was reading an interesting statistic in your book. It says that most silent auctions are, uh, items that don’t cover the cost of what they’re worth, but there’s one item in particular that has a great rate of return, and that’s the gift card. It’s the gift card that has that great rate of return.

Yeah, during, so yeah, OK. So let me back up on what you said. So is the silent auction, which most galas aren’t done by professional in-house development teams. If you’re volunteering at schools, say, or something like that, the first thing they think of is a silent auction. Well, the silent auction is not the best. A money-maker is defined as doing the most work for the least amount of return; the national average is 50% fair market.

So, if that item is worth 100 bucks, you’re going to probably get 50, but it took a lot of energy to go out and ask for it, store it, display it, write it up on the mobile bidding site, and ship it. If you had to ship it to somebody or carry it to the event, there’s a lot to it, right? Gift cards were sold at a 200 percent increase during COVID and the virtual events, which may surprise some.

Ah, that’s shocking. I mean, I don’t. I’ll tell you in the fall, because, uh, I’m on most auctioneers’ lists. The summer is pretty low. I have maybe two or three events in the summer, but I’ll tell you, coming up in the fall, if we are still riding that wave of gift cards selling well, I think that was more of a virtual.

Let’s support them. Let’s overpay for this item. So, it’s yet to be seen. Where’s that going to go?

Yeah, it’s interesting that you brought up a school fundraiser with silent auction knives. Because I remember distinctly going to my kids’ school and my wife and I were trying to get a deal for all this stuff, like what would we be willing to pay to still get a good deal on all the stuff we wanted or cared about? How can we still support that? That’s one side of us. The other side of us is like, “Don’t have my kid sell candy bars for a fundraiser.” How many dollars can I give you to not ask? My kid will do this for $300, so here you go. We’re not selling anything. Please? Because the kids don’t sell it, we end up selling it.

You know what I mean, but you said the dichotomy of the two mindsets. The third Yes, I’m pleased. I don’t want my son to have to do that because I’m going to end up being the one who has to do it. The mindset is normally two things.

One, I want to go support this school. I want them to be a success. I love this school, but when you get there, I think this is just a human thing. How can I get a deal? How can I get that cheap? Right, because we’re used to shopping that way.

I battle that mindset of donors and buyers every night. I want them to come and go. How can I overpay? To make this non-profit, school, or whatever it is a huge success, I used to do a thing where I would hold up going back to gift cards. I would go, ladies and gentlemen. I have a $100 gift card for Home Depot. Who will give me $50.00 for it? Raise your hand if you’ll just give me 50 bucks for it.

And like you know, everybody’s hand will go up, and I’ll keep moving up until I’m at 100. Then a bunch of hands starts going down. I’m at I’m at value. Then I’d go. We’ll give 105. Some hands stay up to 110. So, I think the best thing I ever did was sell a $20.00 gift card. only once for $500.00. And, I asked the guy later. I said, “Why did you overpay for that?” and he said, “Because I had the money I wanted.”

I already knew what I was going to spend, and I wanted it. I’m going to support this organization no matter what, and I thought it would just be fun to do it that way. And he made a statement because this was early on in the auction and he made such a statement that this is why we’re here today, folks. So, I saw the bids increase.

Oh, what a nice way to get that high anchor point and bring everyone up. It’s interesting because, like many Americans, myself included, I want a deal. If I go to a state sale as I want, I want a deal. I want to find something cool. I want to pay very little for it. When I was in the Middle East,

I don’t know. There is a certain group of people in every country, but they prefer, they say, to shut up. From the rooftops, they paid full price for something. That’s their thing.

A lot of the guys in the shops in the market or whatever, they’ll haggle with you. That’s kind of the running game, but the people that have money that never go to those places, they want to say, “Look at this, isn’t it beautiful? I paid full price, I paid top dollar.” They want it to showcase how wealthy they are, and that is the method that they use to do that.

Well, my wife hates to haggle, right? I love it. I don’t mind doing it because I do it for a living, but I will see. You know, a lot of people ask me, do you see a lot of egos in the room? Do you see a lot of people giving to be seen? I have got to say, it’s a smaller amount. A lot of people will remain anonymous. They’re not trying to be showy; I think it’s because they’re putting the nonprofit first.

Yeah, yeah.

and which I love. I just love that I don’t mind being showy. If you do something at the beginning of the funding needs, I’ll tell you the goal. Ladies and gentlemen, we need to raise $25,000 in five minutes. Hey, before I start the first level of 5000 or whatever we determined, hey, you know. I make a joke and I go. Will somebody just give us the $25,000 so I can move on? There’s a laugh. I would say about a dozen times in my career, somebody stood up. and said, “I’ll give it to you.” And that was real. It wasn’t a fake. I think the highest I had somebody give me was 75 grand or 50 grand or something like that. That was our goal.

But then I go on and collect. Now the audio from the rest of the audience, and I have to tell you, they don’t have a name. They’re not making a big deal. They don’t say where they’re from or who they are.

They just showed me their phone number. And I have to tell you that this is some of the greatest stuff I’ve ever seen. I’m just lucky to see these people and my client. By the way, I had no idea this person existed. So now we have a new patron, so now they have a new supporter they can talk to.

That is super cool. I talked to a gal doing events in London, and she does it differently. She finds out who the people that are invited are that have bought the tickets that you know have spent the most. She finds out who the competitors are, directs the competitors, and puts them at a table, and they’ve got iPads. When they see their competitor reach over to bid, they’ll wait till they look away and then grab it. Then they’ll outbid them on something just to keep that rivalry group going and growing.

Oh, I had a Chick-fil-A, which is a restaurant over on this side. Do you have Chick-fil-A over there?

Chick-fil-A is everywhere. I had Chick-fil-A in the middle of the Middle East. Yeah, oh good, good, good.

So, Chick-fil-A is based in Atlanta. So, Chick-fil-A has a great college bowl here in Atlanta. I think they do it in December. And I got Chick-fil-A’s VIP seats. At this bowl, you get to bring the game ball from the car onto the field. The ball is now in the hands of the rest of the players. I mean, this is big. You get to go to all the VIP stuff and all that, right?

So, I’m selling it, and I only had one to sell, and the bidding is back and forth between these two guys. And then I sold it to the one guy. Well, the representative from Chick-fil-A looked at me because it went so high, and he looked at me and said, “Do this,” which means go ahead and sell a second set. And which is great? Because now we’re going to double. They said it’s because it’s a donation from them.

So, let’s just say I sold it at $20,000. So, I turned to the backup guy, who was maybe $500.00 away. I was $250 away from the winning bid, and I said, “Sir, they have given you your two seats.” You will do the work with our winner next to you. Do you want it?

And he was shaking his head no, and he was very hesitant, or not knowing yet, but hesitant to the point where the crowd was going well.

Well, they were all shouting and yelling, and finally, he said yes. Well, at the end of the event, I went up to him. And I said thank you so much, and he went. I’m sorry I was hesitant, and I will go. What are you talking about?

He goes to the guy. Who is my chief rival? And we can’t stand each other. And now we have to sit next to each other. They were trying to outbid each other at this event because they were trying to outbid And I said, “Well, you made me change lives, dude.” I mean, quite honestly, you know, send somebody in your place. But maybe you’ll become friends. Who knows?

Have Chick-fil-A sponsor a divider to put on the seats between.

Then, that’s right, chickens.

Yeah, well God Jesus, chicken wall.

That’s right. There you go.

But again, the good came out of this. The guy knew why he was there. That may have been his intention at first, but he made the difference. It made the event.

I’m working on trying to let positive feedback feel me. I grew up with negative feedback. Someone tells me I can’t do something. So now, whenever I receive positive feedback, I think to myself, “Man, yeah.” Whatever someone like you can’t do, Travis will never be successful. I’m like, “Oh, here we go.“

Let’s go so I can understand that rivalry. I can understand the back and forth of working on getting on the positivity train. It doesn’t always work for me, but yeah, you know.

But if you’re trying, it’s a tough yes. I’m the same.

Please, please, please tell me.

Well, sometimes you’ll say you can’t do that. Then I’ll go, “Yeah, you’re right, and I won’t do it.” because I probably didn’t. You want to do it, yeah? But when I was like, uh, when they told me I couldn’t be an actor or they told me, you know, I’m not going to be many things, I was a class clown. Believe it or not, they’re going to be like, “You will never find a job where you can be a class clown.” Well, technically I have now. I have it and I do well. I’m a class clown. With a focus right and, uh, and I’m here. I’ve got an agenda for my client, but uhm. Yeah, I like a good challenge, you know, trying to teach my son that too.

Like with baseball, he’s found when he feels he can’t do something, he’ll work harder at it.

And I’m just thrilled. I don’t know where he learned that hopefully from his parents, but I’m proud of him that he’s doing it.

That’s a really good thing. So many people could use a little bit of extra drive. They could use a little bit of extra. I remember commenting on Kobe Bryant the day he died, and I had no idea what he was or who he was, and there was an aviation guy and an aviation safety guy, so he commented on aviation safety and someone like, “You know, that’s pretty crude.”

I was like, yeah, that’s probably right, and then did He’s like, do you know anything about what Kobe is like, no? And I started looking into Kobe and the work that he put into that dig deep, work harder attitude, like everything about him. I felt pretty crummy about making the one-off comment. I make a lot of comments for a lot of different reasons. I was commenting on something that I completely didn’t know anything about, which I’ve stopped doing. If I don’t know anything about that, like, what do you think? I’m like, “Well, I haven’t done enough research to have an opinion on that.“

I don’t know, and they’re like, “Really?” I’m like, “Yeah, I can’t say my name.“

I’m not sure. Yeah, I don’t know.

That’s so important. Well then, I want to.

Tell me what it is. I’m not sure what IDK stands for.

I don’t know.

Neither does anybody else.

But no, I don’t know what keeps the conversation going.

It does; it does. I have family members. I’ve got friends who know everything about everything.

Oh yeah.

I’ve got to tell you if someone asks me, “Hey, do you know anything about this?” I could pretend just to get you to stop talking. But I don’t want to; I want to know what that is. I don’t know what that is. Maybe I should know what that is? So, to me, that’s part of keeping an open mind and also being vulnerable. You know, I want to be vulnerable. I want you to know that I like it when I’m in a meeting with a client. They’ll bring up something. I’m not one of these auctioneers who knows everything, and you don’t because I know a lot of those.

They’ll go, “Do you know how to do it?” This makes me think, “Wow, is that a paddle drop?”

I just learned what a paddle drop is the other day from another auctioneer.

It’s been around for a long time, and I had no idea what it was. So, we, you know, talked through it.

How to do it? It’s where at the end of an event? Everybody who wants to give 50 bucks or 100 bucks turns in their paddles. And then we bring all the paddles up on stage and we say we’re going to throw them up in the air. And the one that we catch wins this prize, you know, like a trip or a wine basket or something. And I had never heard of that, so now I’m like, OK, let me think about how I want to put that into my show or how we can make that a money-maker.

You know and change that around.

Yeah, yeah.

If I had said, “Oh yeah, I know all about it and not man,” I just lost an idea. I could have lost an idea there that could have changed. I suppose that could help my clients.

I have the impression that I don’t know everything. I have opinions about things, but I want to hear your opinion because I want to find out how you got there. Am I missing out? an experience. Is there something that you read that I didn’t read? Like, why is it that we have different opinions?

What do I get to learn today? It’s so vital to who I am to just have this questioning attitude. What’s this?

That and the other memory is sitting in a military class, notorious for acronyms, and they rattle off like 3 in one sentence. Like a hand goes up Yeah, what’s going on?

I’m like, what’s this in that in the other one, and the whole class like looked at me like you don’t know what this is, and I’m like no, and if it’s vital to what’s going on here and we need to use that stuff 3 minutes from now, I don’t know what the heck we’re talking about, but it’s not going to work for me, so I had to like, forcibly stop the class.

I had to get them to spell out acronyms and talk because I just wasn’t familiar with that part of the Navy.

I have been in the strategic world, the nuclear command and control world, not the surface, the fleet, the ship, the Navy, I haven’t been in that world, so something that someone in my position with my many years of experience should have that experience.

I was just never in that part of the Navy. They were all staring at me. It was like, “Yeah, I’m responsible for this information.” Once this class is over, if I don’t learn it now, I won’t have time to learn it later. So now is the time and they’re like, “They eventually, you know, calm down a little bit, but like you don’t know.” No, I don’t feel bad for not knowing.

That’s the key. You don’t feel bad for not knowing when we were kids in school.

And if I didn’t know something, I was too afraid because, you know, people in the class would laugh at you or if you don’t know what the reaction is going to be, they make.

You feel bad for not knowing, yes.

But as adults, I think it’s easier to say I don’t know, and people get it. You know, if I’m in a room and I can tell, I can even read if somebody doesn’t know what I just said. Oh, here’s what it means. And that’s the education part. I think that’s important. I wish you could teach a class or go on tour to teach people to think the way you think about learning from other people’s opinions.

It seems like we could. Use that in the world, right?

I’m building out a speech to talk about exactly that topic. I’m just at work, so I’m hosting another show we haven’t launched yet. It’s called the Titan Evolution podcast. We bring out titans in their industry and showcase the stuff that they’ve done. That’s amazing that everyone agrees upon all rights. Now, what did it take to get here? What did you have to overcome?

What did you have to go through? Did you have to be like Rocky and jog through the snow in Siberia? You know, get up to fight the Russians or whatever it was like. What did you have to do, like, how long did it take? Do you know how many? How many days a week did Michael Phelps have to swim and do all this craziness to be able to compete for that many medals?

And how many gold medals have you won in history? Like, what would it take to get there?

That’s the story. That’s what I want to hear, and then what advice do you have to do it so we can interview a guy? Uh, Lou Marinoff. He’s a professor at City University in Harlem.

It’s got the most Nobel laureates coming out at school and full time, and the thing that he talked about, he’s the first interview. He’s very knowledgeable. He’s a little long in the tooth, so some of his answers are pretty robust. But he talked about offense and being offended. And he talked about why he won teacher of the year and how that worked because they allowed the class to question things and ask questions. He’s a philosophy professor.

It’s very important to be able to ask questions and have that discourse, because if you can’t have it in college in a safe environment, good Lord, where can you? He had it, and the kind of precipice was the focus of the talk. is that I can’t offend you. I can say something, but I can’t offend you. You have to take it. You have to take offense. It’s not like the particles flying out of my mouth are intentional and inherently offensive, right? There’s no special sadness that travels on the sound waves, and when it hits you, you’re automatically sad, offended, or anything else you deserve.

Determine how you feel when you hear that thing. And the only way you can get offended is if you take offense. You have to decide to take it, yeah. He put it in a much more eloquent way than I’ve always felt. That, like my wife, will sometimes say, “Don’t judge me and I You’re the one deciding you’re being judged, not me. I’m not judging you. So, when people say to you, you know, you’re offending me, I’m like, well, no.

Away. I’m trying not to, but if that’s on you, you’re the one deciding to be that way. In my job, you know, up on stage. I need to be everybody’s best friend. I need to be apolitical. I’m from Switzerland. I am “No blue material,” which means nothing negative on stage. My job is for everyone, no matter what they think politically. Anything about him? We’re here for the nonprofit. We’re here to give, and I have to be that lightning rod. And so that has taught me that my opinion is just not important. It’s not as important as I once thought it was.

You are the entertainer in the situation. And I know, I know, we’re getting off track here a little bit. We’re going to get back on track here, folks. They’re talking about entertainers canceling their shows and discussing social issues or political topics. And she’s like I’ve never done that and she’s like I feel like when people come to my events they’re there to get away from the world and unplugged to be entertained and she’s like I don’t feel like on stage as mine.

I don’t think it’s my right to stop everything and give my opinion in a situation, especially when I don’t know all the facts. I can know something, and some things can irritate me, but she’s like, they’re not mine. That’s not why they’re not here for my political stance on whatever; they’re here because they want to have fun, unwind, unplug, be entertained, and she’s like, I don’t feel like that’s my job.

That’s what it taught me. It’s just a huge lesson because I am there to represent. And I’m here to help and do the best I can. Nobody wants to hear my opinion. Not my wife. I don’t want to hear my own opinion. You know, it’s just that I’m here to do good. And that’s it.

Yeah, and most people just want their opinions reinforced anyway. They don’t want to hear your opinion; they just want theirs confirmed. True, yeah? But we’re going to move on from the auctioneer debate.

The golden ticket

The thing I’ve been wanting to ask you about because I had never heard of this until I cracked open your book. Tell us what the golden ticket is and how it works.

It’s been around forever, right? It’s a raffle. So, a golden ticket now exists, in my opinion. There are three forms, and they are constantly changing. So, it’s a high-end raffle. So, let’s say statistically, and this is about right, 2025% of that audience can afford the live auction. Those are big-ticket items, right?

So, the golden ticket was invented not by me, but it’s been around forever to be a raffle where anyone can afford it. It’s usually so I can afford $100 to give to the nonprofit for a chance to win a really big item. So, the way We did it for years. Did the winner get to pick one of the live auction items? I would bring them up before selling them, so I would bring up the winner and say OK.

Here’s the list of items you need for this trip, this beach house, or this dinner. Which one do you want? They told me and they took it home. Scott is free. other than the $100 that they donated, right? So, it’s done. And then I would sell everything else. We would do that for years, but it was dependent on how well or how good these items were in the live auction.

Then COVID hit.

Nobody is giving these items. As a result, one company called QQ Fundraising.com They’re a consignment company for trips. They did something brilliant. They took five of their items, all of which were expensive, such as a Tuscany in a Cabo, and I believe one was a case of wine, and then they went on a bourbon trip and, I believe, a golf trip. They said to the nonprofit here, “You pay the US $2, which is a reserve.” And all for these items. We’re going to put two to three-year validation on them, so

The expiration date is a couple of years away.

So, we didn’t know when we were getting out of COVID, so they didn’t worry about using it in a year. You’ve got plenty of time to use it right in the winter. And so, you picked.

One of those that solved the problem of not having any new items coming out last year. It morphed again. And in my new favorite way, which is 1 item. So, it’s not about you deciding, it’s about the donor deciding what they want. It’s one item, but it’s expensive, so I had a client that did this wonderfully. They got a consignment item that was from Mexico. house with a full staff and a chef and all that. I believe the reserve was six grand, which is a little higher than I would have liked. I want you to normally do it. I like it. I paid 2 grand, but they sold it, and this is because of virtual.

It was a live event, but they sold the golden tickets to everyone and their mother. Even if you couldn’t be there, you did not need to be present to win; they sold $22,000 worth of tickets. So, they netted 16 grand when it was all said and done, and there were only 200 and 5300 in the room, right? It was because now with the golden ticket, you can sell it to everybody. And that’s what made the difference. So, imagine making $16,000 off of one item if it’s part of the live auction. It’s part of the live auction, but it’s a huge winner because it’s only $100. Everybody can play. They feel like they’re part of the live auction, and it’s just a big success, but I’ve taken it one step further.

Now I take that item if it’s on consignment and if I can sell it multiple times. I’d sneak it back into the live auction because 99.9% of that audience lost the golden ticket. So, we sneak it into it and go, “Hey, that Tuscany trip, you know you didn’t win.” I’ve got one. So, this happened the other night. We made, you know, ten grand and a golden ticket to Tuscany, which, again, is on a lot of people’s bucket lists right now. I sold another five of them during the live auction at eight grand apiece.

So, it’s 50 grand you made in just Tuscany alone.

Yeah, so it’s morphed, but the golden ticket is such an easy way to do it. You don’t have to go get a bunch of stuff for it. You know, consignment is a mixed bag.

I’m an auctioneer who says “consignment” when you need it. There are some great companies out there. Mitch Stewart, Winspy, or HGH. And a bunch of others. It’s when you need it.

I don’t put a lot of what I’m not going to say. Some auctioneers make a pretty good living just off the residuals from selling these. I don’t choose to take that. So, it’s still legit, but I have to put my non-profit needs first, and what is it that they need? If they only need one consignment or none, fine. But this is a great way to use consignments because it’s really hard for most nonprofits to get an exotic type of trip this way.

Oh, that makes sense. That makes sense. So, I’ve got one more thing I want to ask you before we wrap up for those people that are trying to put it together. in the event of an auction or whatever. What is the preferred order of events? What’s the best way to order all the different events within a gala? You’ve got a couple of hours to do it. How do you want to? How do you want to stack those?

Do you want to do it this way? The awards and speeches. First, you want to hold those off to the end.

What does that look like?

So, it depends, and I won’t get too technical, right? There are a couple of templates because I’m hands-on with running a show with the client, so it depends. Is it a sit-down dinner? Is that the first thing I ask? Or is it food stations, right? Because we’re going to be a little different in how we run.

However, for the most part, it is welcome. Maybe an award in there. The welcome is 5–6 minutes. Whatever we can pack in there. Perhaps a donation to the FUNDENI fund?

That was never the case until about five or six years ago. It was always a live auction first.

I’m all about funding needs first. I was one of the few auctioneers who still had a bunch of

winners who won’t do it. For the most part, they funded first because it’s the emotional part of the night.

It’s the serious part, and it’s the biggest money-maker, as we talked about before. That segues into the live auction. Because the live auction is fun, it’s frivolity, right? So, if you put that first and then try to hit the brakes very hard, it will go welcome. We need a live auction.

Raffles or no live auction. Then if you have more awards or a keynote speaker or any of that after that. Because anything after the live auction, when we are done with the fundraising part, I don’t care what you do. Because people, if they decide they’re going to walk away, have already given and bought.

If you do all these speeches and all these awards and then get to the money, at the end of the night, I see people walking. People who could have given out

Yeah, yeah.

So doing it earlier is better.

So, I imagine when you describe these in a book the funding need applies to everyone. At the live auction, there’s a large portion of the audience that just can’t compete, or we’re not willing to compete for some of this stuff. So having the funding required first when it is available is fine. Early and often before the auction makes more sense.

Yeah, and I’ve got to tell you I’m having more fun at events now than ever before. I think people are tired of it. Again, for my nonprofit, overworked and underpaid, and it’s very hard to go out and find things. Some of them get great things, but for the most part, it’s very, very hard. The funding needs are an easy setup. It’s an easy thing to do, and so, and people, by the way, I think just want to give.

They want fewer things. I’m not discounting the silent Yes, it can still make money. The businesses are still profitable. It depends on your particular audience, and that’s one of the first things I look at when I sit with an audience with a client. Tell me about your audience. Let me see your data. What are they buying? Because I’m all about the data, and that will help us decide what we need to do.

Yeah, ask him. Like, where do you want to go? On your dream vacation. And then get that one created and have that one available, right?

SurveyMonkey gives them what they want. You are dead on, and you should see my clients go, huh?

And I go, or how about I call your board or your top ten givers from last year and ask them what they want to buy? Don’t guess. Don’t guess, man. Let’s just give them what they want.

We had a motivating seminar come through Oklahoma. It must have been nine or ten years ago and they had speakers going up like all these fantastic people like Hillary Clinton and Colon Powell and Rudy Giuliani and Joe Montana.

and a couple of others. You know, salespeople, right? They’re getting all pumped up to sell you stuff. Someone came in and said, “You’re going to earn lots of money, so you can buy a Mercedes AMG,” and the crowd was silent. because we’re in Oklahoma.

Right, we don’t care about a Mercedes AMG. We’re not Bill West Coast, right? He didn’t know the audience, and he was like a new Ford F-150. And then the crowd erupted. So yeah, by not knowing your audience, you can end up trying to sell them something that they

I have no interest in

Right, yeah? I mean, if you’re a school, you are not going to take that Tuscany trip if you’re a pre-K.

No, you’re not leaving your children. However, a Disney trip is something they will fight for. So, know your audience. Data, data, data is the king because it tells me Who’s buying what? Are they buying? What do they want? What percentage?

And that’s where mobile bidding apps are so great. You know, like, being smart and all that. They tell the true story and then build it around that. It’s that it’s pretty simple, but it’s hard.

You cracked me up because you said people would fight over the Disney stuff. I immediately imagined two mothers fighting with their fists. right?

Immediately, what popped into my head was, “Man, I’m so happy to say I’ve never seen that I’ve had people say

Bobs became a flop. My eyes are bloodshot because I’m taking my kids to Disney. I got out of here with it like this immediately, where I went, so I’ve had a rougher life than some.

people, I think. Well, you know, behind the scenes. I’ve got to tell you I’ll have a chair come in and go. I’m going to bid on that. She’ll say it out loud to me or somebody else. I’m going to go. That’s the attitude I love, you know. But I’ve never seen real fights; not, thank God, nothing like that. I’ve had two men faint at two different auctions, one right before the funding needed.

By the bar, I mean, we were about to ask for the money, and he fainted. Both guys ended up fine, but an EMT had to come in. Back there, right and it stops. The show and fund-raising continued. However, the second guy, who was about 6 feet tall, fell straight back on a concrete floor, and we thought, “Oh my God, he’s dead.” He sat up for a while. “Please continue,” we said as we waited for him to EMT. And we went on. It did great. He was fine because the audience could breathe. There was a sigh of relief.

Do you know? Well, perspective matters, right? Don’t let your circumstances affect that jovial nature that some people have. I heard a story about a guy who turned out to be a great guy. Everyone loved him. Like, when you see that guy come out, you’re like, “Oh man, I can’t wait to talk to this guy, because he’s just so energetic and right.” He was doing a construction job when he fell out of a third story.

And they got him in the ambulance. They were taking him away. He was awake, kind of barely, and they asked him, like hey, before we get started, is there anything that you’re alerted to, and he pulled off the oxygen mask and he was like, apparently gravity, right?

And then, as you know, the room erupted, and then they were able to relax and go and do the surgery and other stuff that they needed. He was fine and everything recovered, but like that, that sense of, you know, knowing who you are and not changing just because of a circumstance, is such a fantastic way. Dean, where can people get a copy? Where is the one place you want them to go?

Well, I want him to I’ve got the book, so I’m going to give a free PDF to anybody listening to NPR. Please go get it right now, paddles. If you require a hard copy, you can order one from Amazon. It’s there for cheap, but I’d rather just give it to the non-profits that need it. You can reach me through there or my benefit auctioneer. com my benefit auctioneer.com and I do a console. Let’s do a free 30-minute console and let’s see if we’re fit. If you need my services,

Yeah, please do that. Go to mybenefitauctioneer.com to get the free PDF. Dean was gracious enough to send me a couple of copies of these, so if you’re in Oklahoma City, you can swing by and borrow a copy. It’s like 60 pages. big font for the, uh, older audience. A real quick read. I read it this morning. No problem. very straightforward. None of that nonsense. And fluff and flowery stuff are like, “This is what?“

This is it? This is what we do. You know, bam, bam, bam, and because you don’t have time to read all these books. I’m retired, so I can read those as much as I want. You guys are in the fight. You guys are working hard. You guys need to get it. Paddles up. Read it quickly. Thanks again, Dean, for being my guest today.

Thank you so much.

What a great conversation! Man, this was a This is fun, yeah, so Uhm, if I had a podcast, I’d bring it.

If you’re on it, but if not, I’ll just call you and we’ll just start talking. I’ll tell you; I’m recording it. If that makes you feel better.

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