How to Fundraise in the Post Pandemic World with Dee Dee Kiesow

Hey, welcome back to the show and welcome back Dee Dee. So for the program we had you on last year, we’re bringing you back again. You just wrote a new book about fundraising in the post-pandemic world. What the heck are you doing, Dee Dee? 

Well, thanks for asking Travis. I’m great because you’re great, so thanks for asking. 

So, what everyone doesn’t get to see or hear is that I always have a pre-discussion with my guests and we’re working through a couple of things from the beginning of the year for us and I asked if she wanted to be vulnerable and she’s like, “Nope, not interested” and I don’t blame her because being vulnerable in a public setting is tough. It’s hard.

Someone told me it’s one of my superpowers because I am more than happy to share all the things that go on in my life and my world. After all, I feel people need to see that side of me. If you only see what you know in public, you just think everyone is amazing all the time, and that’s just not how life work is. I told her to share a little of her story to encourage her. Now she’s all excited and revved up and raring to go, but, DEE DEE, please tell us what you’ve been up to in the last year or so. I know you’ve got this book out. What else has been going on?

Well, thanks for asking Travis, and I’m excited to be back, so thank you.

Do you want to know what’s been going on? Have we finished our back-and-forth in the home galas? We went into the studio with three live cameras. We did some galas, but you know, when those masks came off, people wanted to get back and live again. We’re continuing to do donor enrollment and coaching with my clients to raise money in that way, but I wanted to get this book out. It is “Fund Raising in the Post Pandemic.”

Well, what has changed? You know, in the last two years, if you don’t change how, you raise money, you’re going to be left in the dust if you don’t change your thinking a little bit.

You know, I approached that a little bit after writing the book. I had a little impostor syndrome. I had some sad days. And it took me back to when I worked back as a major gift officer in a nonprofit and I came in every day all gung-ho, and we’re going to recruit and find those lapsed donors, and I had amazing success. But the people I worked with weren’t exactly high-fiving me every day, and there were days that this reminded me much of that.

For Travis, it was going to my car and crying through my lunch because it was so hard to bring other people along with me and to feel the joy and to change the way we were raising money to make it joyful giving and not mediocrity.

There were two people in that company that had other jobs, other day jobs, and the company didn’t even know. You know, are you bringing your best, and can you stop for a moment and be grateful? And so, you know, I found at that point that I probably wasn’t grateful enough. I wanted to do more, improve more, enroll more, and raise the bar. It wore me out. There’s a bit in this book called “The Six Bigger Mindset”, and I want everyone to know that by using that chart every day when you get up, it can change where you go. Can you know why you wake up in the morning? Can it help you wake up? And that’s with an intentional, awake intentional mindset. And some gratitude for the autos’ accomplishments.

 Oh, absolutely, and thank you so much for being open and vulnerable with us. It’s interesting that when we have feelings, we have feelings. I was shocked to find out in my 20s that there was more than one feeling. I didn’t know there was more than one. I thought anger was the only feeling you could have, and I’ve slowly learned that there are many more.

But people experience the full range of emotions on a fairly regular cycle. I struggle with seasonal affective disorder. So, when it gets cold and dark and all that stuff, I get cold and dark and it’s not till the spring that everything starts greening up again that I get excited and then I overload my schedule that I realize I can’t do all this stuff and I have to say no to a bunch of stuff, which I just did this week. But that’s a cycle that affects

When we do things and we go through life and especially being in America, it’s more, bigger, better, faster. More money, more donors? How can we help? How we build the biggest nonprofit ever of all time. 

We forget that the things that we do day-to-day can have a big impact, regardless of their size. Oh, my gala didn’t raise as much as last year, yeah, but you were able to serve more people. You had a larger impact. You changed the life of this person. This person’s life is now forever changed because of the impact that they had.

What we tend not to do, especially in America, is celebrating all the little things that we’ve done along the way because we’re looking to the future for the next mountain to climb. Or it wasn’t the same or as big as or as cool as what you did last year or what you saw in Tik T.O.K or whatever the thing was. So, we don’t celebrate.

We stay overly busy, and then we compare what we just did to what everyone else did. I wanted to thank you for not only being my guest again but also for finishing your book, Fundraising in a Post-Pandemic World. If you’re hearing this for the first time and you’ve not met DEE DEE, go back to the podcast and check out six-figure fundraising. So, you can see how she does all the amazing stuff that she does, and then you can check out her new book about fundraising in a post-pandemic world. They figure out how it’s changed, tweaked, and updated since. Uh, you know? Now prophets have been doing everything the same way. For 30 years, it’s changed now, and if you. Don’t get up on the times. You’re now probably left. in the dust. DEE DEE, what inspired you to really write the book and put this together? 

I’ll tell you what, I have a business coach and I love him. I’ll tell you one other thing, I didn’t realize all those years of fundraising. You know, you go to a conference, you know, you go to your local nonprofit, glue collaborators, but these are all people on your same level. Whose shoulders can you stand on to take a leap and do things differently and think differently?

I had a coach. I’ve had mentors. I pay for a business coach. I invest in myself now and in my future, and I’m also investing in being the best coach and mentor for other people. We’re not just keeping the thinking in the nonprofit world. This is good for profit thinking as well. Iron sharpens iron, and when you can align yourself with somebody who thinks differently, they can elevate you.

In the book, I talk about several different for-profit entities that inspired us to be able to leap forward and jump raise more money without the same old processes. I have a chart in there called “From Chicken Little to Paul Revere.” And this is just purely a mindset, right? The majority of nonprofits were apathetic, arrogant, and slightly dishonest with themselves. There’s ego. There’s a fear of asking for money. There’s hopelessness and shame. Stress on any of those things. That’s chicken little, you know, no one’s shooting at you. It’s not a battlefield.

When you open the door at your nonprofit, you should think you’re Paul Revere. And there’s some awfully good news. Some transformations are happening in your organization, and you’ve got to get out into the public square and tell other people so they can come to be part of it too. And it means being brave. It means being calm, confident, and delighting in the work you need to be enlightened and excited about. which is the opposite of this chicken little mindset, and I know because I have worked with hundreds of organizations and the first thing we need to do is put on some armor as if Chicken Little has left the building, and I’m thinking, how can you not talk about your nonprofit? You’re Paul Revere, and you have good news to share, and you know what? The British aren’t coming. I think you’re just going out and letting people know your good news, I think, but that thinking is step one and we need to be reminded every single day when we wake up that I’m not going to be chicken. Not today, though. 

That’s so true, right? There are a lot of nonprofits out there that do this fear-based, guilt-based, shame-based fund-raising. There’s always some kind of emergency. “Oh, we’ve got to get the funding for the new thing by the end of the quarter, or else the sky will fall on us.”

Everyone I know who works in organizations that operate on the fear-based, scarcity-based “Oh woe is me” mentality. Those people are not enjoying life. They are worried about where the dollars are going to come from every month. They’re flying by the seat of their pants. I know they’re not spending it. Time training, I know they’re not spending time building teams.

Everything seems to be an emergency in these organizations, and the other thing they have in common is that they don’t last. They might have a good year and a half and a two-year push. They might even stretch it to five years, but you don’t see those organizations hit the 10-year, 15-year, or 20-year mark. You don’t see him hit the $1,000,000 mark. They never do it because people don’t like those feelings. They don’t like being talked to that way. They don’t like the framework of guilt and shame. You might get your dollars today. Hey, but you might not get their dollars next year, and that brings us to the lifetime value of a donor because you don’t care about their money just today. 

Yes, it’s nice to get it today, but I want to know if that money is going to be there next month. next fiscal quarter are they going to leave a gift for us to find? How do I? You approach the question of lifetime donor worth

I’m so glad you asked. Well, you know, I do, and I am kind of proud of that.

And I like events. I don’t like galas. It costs thousands of dollars. I don’t even like the word “gala” because it means to party. But how about a dinner enrollment event? We’re going to bring people into three things. 1. educate them on the transformation that you provide. They won’t want to know all the time that you do everything, but who is being transformed? Are their lives changing and are these lives going to create a ripple effect for future generations?

So that’s your story, right? We’re not storytellers. I see a lot of storytelling and its enrollment. That’s right, so we want to enroll people in this transformation. And one thing about having an enrollment event it’s permission to have sponsors underwriters or your friends all come, friends, tell friends, and all together. Now we’re going to invite you to give a joyful gift and lifetime donor value.

I have a chart in my book that talks about the frequency of the gift, the level of the gift, and the duration of the gift, and so it’s a Venn diagram. So just imagine the frequency you don’t want it just once a year. That means you’ve only contacted them when you have an event. “oh I better call to thank him for coming last year and invite him to next Year’s event.” I heard this twice this year already and I said, oh heavens, I hope that’s not the case. 

You want to be able to give people you know that the first gift is a test gift. I remember we talked about this in our last podcast about the buffet. All-you-can-eat buffet, but that first gift very well could just be a test gift, and if you have a frequency of gratitude, you’re going to have a frequency of gifts and opportunities for them to give at a greater level.

There is no duration, no duration without a donor gratitude program. And that doesn’t mean you press the button. This e-mail picks up the phone. “We’re so grateful.” What inspired you to give such a generous gift? Or do we notice you’ve been giving for several years? Is there something, in particular, we do that you can align with? And how can we make sure we’re keeping you informed there? “

I used to have a gentleman I got to know this lapsed donor very well. And he had given 10s and 10s. Of thousands of dollars to the organization, he lapsed and he used to but he doesn’t give anymore. He just picked up the phone and I said, you know what? We’re having an event and you know I’d like to buy your ticket. I want you to come and see exactly what it is we’re doing. He loved it. Every single time I saw this guy he handed me a check. And it was always the same amount of money.  And so once we went to a luncheon together, he invited me, and he told me the story of why it meant so much for him to be able to give to our organization and he was given to mothers and children. He was a child in that situation once and he wanted to make sure that didn’t happen again so come here and I would just call and I’d read a laundry list of ways that are any of these hot buttons for you. 

This is what we’re looking for Do you know anybody else? And I remember one of the last things he did was have 75 new mattresses delivered the next day to the shelter. Toys for every child and a Christmas gift for every mother. And he had his daughter and her friends wrap those gifts so he could teach them.

So you see, this was The last call, just a phone call. And we were able to bring him back to frequency. I had never imagined and that duration is continuing, so you can go back and look at all those gifts and for a lifetime donor value. You know, I still run into him across town. You know, it’s a splendid human being, but a splendid ATM, right?

Yeah, it sounded like he left because he was missing one of these three ingredients. He didn’t feel heard, understood, or acknowledged. And when he finally did feel, he heard, understood, and acknowledged it. He reignited his passion for why he started giving in the first place. You know, when I talk to people in the fund-raising world, I don’t think so. No one is quite as joyful as you are when it comes to Putting on events and raising money and you talk about joyful giving. What is it about what you do that has you in this elevated mood? This is a joy that no one else seems to have. 

Thanks, Travis, for asking this question. It’s a good one, and you know, I want to speak to everybody in the nonprofit world because I know there are those dark cloud days, and it’s because you’re doing it. And I used to do it that way too, but when I found out what joyful giving really was, and that is just inviting my donors to hear, not a boring story and a long speech. But this is about the work we do to transform humanity.

In my book, there are quite a few examples of how to change the words you use to talk. And when you start loving the transformation that you provide for individuals, you can joyfully welcome people to make a gift. You’re not chasing them for the money.

Even in a crowd, If I’m asking my crowd, let’s talk about the transformation that we’ve all seen. For David, I want to invite you all. For David and all the other individuals in our organization that we serve, I’d like to invite you to make a joyful gift. At the $5000 level, you know you can raise your hand or, you know, write a check and you know if $2,500 is a level that would bring you joy for the partnership.

You see, we’re not telling them we want your money. We’re inviting them to use their love and joy and create a gift that brings them a joy to give me. I say it’s a disservice not to allow interested donors to make a gift that can bring them joy and new prosperity. What a disservice that you would run around and not invite them to hear about you, Paul Revere, and make a joyful gift.

Oh, without a doubt.

People will say no, and it’s OK. It doesn’t make me unhappy when they say no. Oh my God, thank you for listening, and I hope you find a perfect match. An organization that can touch your heart and says thanks for listening, right? right? because they didn’t give a gift. We want the right people because when you look at the lifetime dollar value chart, there’s this one little place in the middle. All three come to frequency level and duration will come together for your ideal donor, and this is someone who’s been all three for a long time. 

Oh absolutely, when you get the right people to join in with the thing that you’re doing, whatever your thing is, is right. Everyone’s got their own different thing. This isn’t a competition between which person’s thing is better or worse or needs more. That’s not what it’s about.

When you get the right people involved, because there is a group of people that care about you, your cause, what you’re trying to do, and how you’re trying to do it, there is a group of people for everybody. However, once you have the right people on board, everything becomes much easier. Everything becomes more joyful and everything becomes more abundant.

There’s a book called “U-Squared.” It’s about YOU to the power of two. It’s by Price Pritchard. There’s a story in the book that I feel applies to a lot of things now. Profits It opens the book with, “Have you ever seen a fly?” He was beating his head against the glass window, trying to get out. And I believe we have all witnessed that situation.

And then it has because there’s no amount of pressure or force that that fly can apply to get through that window, and anyone that knows how big a fly is and how squishy its body is and how thick a pane of glass is, knows that there’s no amount of speed or effort that that flight can give to achieve this goal. But if he would just turn his attention in the right direction, this might be the right donor, the right group of people. He would notice that the door is wide open, 3 feet away, and could easily fly to his goal through the open door. So I got to ask, how many people do you see in the nonprofit industry that are just banging their heads on that glass, wondering why they can’t get where they’re going?

 Travis, I hate to speculate, but you didn’t ask.

Honestly, I think 80% of you continue to do it the same way you’ve always done it. There’s this chicken little fear. Do you know the resistance? I’m challenging everybody to change their ways, just a few centimeters for different results.

I love having a mentor. I love business coaching. And it’s someone just at the advisor level, right? Find an advisor for your organization, someone who has the results that you’d only dream of and say, “Here are the three things we’re thinking of,” and often the things you’re thinking of are things you saw somebody else do. And that may not be the right thing for you.

You could make it organic. What are you right? What are the results you want and think big? Think big results so you can invite bigger donors and bigger strategic partners to help you get there. Dee Dee, when you get through the door and you find $1,000,000, And then you think your work’s done. And how often does that happen? I had a client I just adored and we had the biggest, best multi 6 figure gala and after that, I was inspired. They sent them $1,000,000 and they said well, we’re going to rest. All of our fundraisings, you know we have plenty of money and we’re all tired. And we’re just going to rest it, right? There and guess what? They haven’t made any money in a couple of years now and I can’t help them. I can’t help them because they don’t want to think differently. They got comfortable.

There’s a story in the book too. I worked at an organization where when the big check would come in at the end of the year they ring the bell we made. Budget Oh my gosh. That’s great, let’s keep going. No, we made a budget we think gosh we made a budget. And I saw this happen for two years. It’s the Dee Dee thing, right? 

You didn’t have that giant goal. How can we serve them bigger and better with that innovation? With less, if we had a gift. Imagine this: you’re driving on a road and there’s a pothole. And your organization knows how we get to fill the potholes? We can keep driving forward and that’s the only goal you have for your organization as you keep those bottles built so we can keep serving. That’s not so cool. If you can create an on-the ramp and there’s an on-ramp that you can drive up to and land in a different place and serve from there, I think that might be better. 

It’s so amazing what happens when you can shift your thinking in the framework of what you’ve been doing just a little bit to get something new. A lot of organizations that I saw during the pandemic had the biggest, best, most wonderful fund-raising years that they ever had. And there are ones that didn’t, and they closed up shop. And the biggest difference between the two was that the ones that had all the success kept asking, and when times are tough, not everyone will be able to give. But the people that understand and can do so are going to give, and they’re going to give big, but not if you stop asking.

Don’t project your fears, your insecurities, or what’s going on in your household budget. God forbid. I know tons of people had a really hard time through the pandemic, but the ones that kept asking shifted. I’m not familiar with the term pivot. Spin out there pivot, right? ones that did that took the opportunity to try something new and different and maybe finally raise their technology. in their fundraising in their day-to-day lives. 

Good Lord, some of your nonprofits, you know who I’m talking about. as I’m recording this I can project in the future and see the collective heads going. Yep, our board hasn’t had any kind of updates or innovations in decades, but once they did find that there was a whole other world to connect to a whole lot easier ways to do this thing and they could get away from that scarcity. Oh, look at the poor sick animal. Don’t just show the poor sick. Show the transformation. Show the animal that’s happy, healthy in a great home, and looks amazing, and then say it’s because of the program. It’s because of the gifts. 

The joyful gifts that everyone in their sphere of influence brings in those joyful gifts are what caused the transformation. If you’re leading with the dog, that’s all beat up. And sad. Your lifetime donor value is going to be. Much less than if you do it the other way.  

And you know what? The story about that sad dog isn’t about that sad dog. It’s the happy family that becomes its future home, right? So that and its family is really the rest of the story, and I think we forget about where the joy level went, and that’s really what nonprofits do; they create a joy level.

You know, even these testimonial stories, they’re helping me get out of being homeless and helping me with my drug problem as well. You know, you haven’t solved the problem just yet. You have someone who is still in the process, but your best testimonials come from somebody who says “that was me.” They helped me, and today I’m in this different place. I’m not still being helped, I am helping myself as a result of the work this organization did. “

So often I find they’ll put a dreamer or someone that’s not quite there yet. To be the donor’s testimonial story is not quite right. Sure, if they’re going to make it past the finish line, right? So be selective with how you tell your story and make sure it’s someone who’s graduated from the program. It makes all the difference.

I know that you are a lover of the event, and I’ve talked to a lot of different people. There are some event haters out there, and that’s OK. You’re allowed to be a hater. I’m OK with you being wrong. That’s perfectly fine in my book, but you are an event lover. And you talk in your book about how to reverse engineer. Your event, for those that haven’t read the book, gives us a little behind-the-scenes sneak peek of what it looks like to envision that event and then how to reverse engineer all the steps so you can make that event happen for your organization. 

OK, well I’m going, to be honest. OK, I used to be an event hater. But reverse engineering means, number one, starting with what the outcome, you want, and it had better not just be raising money. That’s how you have a failing event because you’ve opened up a bank ATM and you’re dressing it up as a party and you just really want to suck the money out of everybody. But really, this event needs to do three things, and that tells the transformation how you elevate how many people you’ve elevated over the years, get people to hear why you are different, and then, number two, you want to enroll them. It’s enrollment, right?

So they’re becoming people that you can reach out to in the future, and they’re going to become believers in your cause. So post the event if you want people. Do you want humans? You want them to get into the frequency, duration, and level of the event. Of course, you want the event to raise money, and I think a lot of people hate events because they aren’t Footsie and they haven’t reverse-engineered.

The return on investment portion, I’ll tell you now, at the end of the last year, several of the events I did double in money. They were $250,000 events. It became a half $1,000,000 event and people just wrote the fattest checks in the world and even wrote post-event. They returned, and that is why that event should be considered a homecoming, right? It’s a high school homecoming. We’d better tell him. It’s the homecoming dance and not the homecoming game, right? Use your pre-event marketing to set expectations. And remember, if You’re going to a dance. People are going to ask you to dance, so let them know it’s a fundraiser. You will be asked to make a joyful gift of some kind, and we know we have numerous people coming, so make sure you have diversity in the ways that they can give and the ways they want to give.

Also, you don’t want so much electronics and technology that you make the donor have to jump through burning hoops to give their gift. A lot of people who give money don’t want to use the money on their phones during a live event. They don’t want to hang up, hold up a PayPal that has a QR code, and hope that someone is going to come around and swipe a card or get their QR code. That’s not joyful. You want to be able to say thank you so much, Travis, for your gift of $5000 and have everyone applaud. Travis, keep your arm up. In about 10 minutes, somebody will come by and swipe your credit card.

So be careful with the technology you’re using. You’re wearing out your donors. You’re not making it flim-flam. And then here’s what’s happening now: my clients are finding alternative places to have their donor enrollment events, and I’m talking if they’re a camp, they’re doing it at camp and we’re not having ball gowns and tuxedos.

We’re bringing people to the camp to see what’s happening. You know, handicapped children? They’re able to do it. They’re able to see the pool. They’re able to see how they’re going to learn to do archery, and we’re going to have an exhibit at one of my clients. Another one is doing the event in the garden of her facility. We’re saving thousands of dollars. We’re just getting some good speakers in so everyone can hear. We’re bringing them to the soil where the transformation happens, and so I think this is a wonderful way to move forward.

You’re going to tell your story. People are going to see where some of those shortcomings are and where they could invest, right? Allow them to leave thinking. Gosh, they could. They could use, you know, another lift over the swimming pool and. You know, maybe we could put our name on it. Let’s write that check later on. But let them see. where they can. Invest in and serve people and bring elevated work to the organizations that they are attending. Do you know how we can enlist their assistance?

You see, I love that you say bring them to the place. So many times I see non-profit websites that you have to be some kind of detective to figure out. What on Earth is it that they even do? They’re not showing their programmers or walking people through the transformations. They’re not showcasing their wins.

Some organizations Let’s deal with things. I talked to a lot of veterans’ groups that talk about healing and transformation and PTSD and all these different things, and it’s hard to get some people in that situation to say yes. But what you can say is you can do a quick Facebook live and say “I am so excited because of our family, our donors, you!”

We were able to onboard this 32-year-old Army veteran and connect him to the services he needed to get healed. Thank you. One: how long did that take? 20 seconds? I didn’t violate any privilege. I didn’t tell you who he was; he didn’t have to come to share his story, but I showed the people what it is that we’re doing with the funds that we’re giving. And I don’t know what it is about non-profit organizations. They don’t have someone dedicated to doing what I just said is so easy to do.

You’re right.

It’s so easy to do, and can you imagine what it’s like when you have 90 to 200 people coming through at the same time? So now that the Development Director doesn’t have to schedule 50 private tours and they have to meet him for coffee a few more times because you can’t ask for money just yet, this is a massive one too many, asking for money, opportunity, and it’s all joyful.

And the best part is that you have high-level givers that are going to come and bring their mind-minded people, and sometimes I have our biggest donor talk about why he loves to give. So we’re going to enroll everybody! It’s about 30 minutes of asking and having maybe a couple of live auction items. But this is not all-night MoneyGram, and it’s about joyful giving, joyful transformations, and welcoming everybody all at once. Now, your work is doing what you should love to do. And that is it. Thank these people and keep them in You know, keeping in touch with them all year about your gift made this happen. Right, we’re so happy that you know Billy got his therapy dog, and look how he’s doing now, and you give the donors credit for all of that.

 You just brought up a great point about something. I remember in the 90s watching TV. If you give the price of a cup of coffee a day, it’ll go to some child in Africa. But then they would send you letters from the kid thanking the donor for what they did. They were closing that loop. 

I don’t know if I agree with how I did all the stuff, but they closed the loop on what the impact was the person was making, and so often so many nonprofits forget to do that. I remember interviewing Brady Josephsen the next day, and he said that less than 15% of all nonprofits thank donors for every transaction. 15% or less!

Do you want a way to stand out as a non-profit? Thanks to your donors for their stinking money. And show them the good that it’s done.

You know, one of the best exercises that I love to have clients do is after their donor enrollment events. We split up the list of everybody. You know, and it might even be 8 to 10 per board member. And then on Sunday morning, pick up the phone and just say thanks for coming. People aren’t even going to answer the phone. But they listened to the message, and in that rarity, my biggest naysayer once was this elderly gentleman. I said “I’m not doing that” and so he did it and we met up because I said we were going to have a post-event. I want to hear how it all went down. He said, “I can’t believe they couldn’t believe I called this.” Thank them because I’m on the board and they wanted to tell me what a great time I was having. They had and they hope we do it again because they want to come again and they love learning about all the things that we do. They didn’t. even know about. OK, that was a two-minute phone call and if you go back to the lifetime donor chart, it’s going to make an impact. 

Yeah, absolutely, uh, I’d love to do all the things that you’re doing. Thank you so much for being open and honest and transparent about your book and some of the details about the joy. work that you do. DEE DEE, where can people find you?

Well, deedeekiesow.com, you know, as a thank you to all of the listeners, the books are going up on Amazon, but you can get a free download of the book by going to my website. It’s just my gift to you. Download the book. Use it. Let me know if it works. Standing on my shoulders for you, or if I can provide you with anything else.

I’ve done this before. I’m bringing it back to my 6-figure fundraising. event formula right where we’ll be working. can ask all the questions you want about how your organization can best utilize reverse engineering techniques. It’s not necessarily what everybody else is doing, it will be the right choice for you.

Hey, thanks so much for being. My guest today. Dee Dee.  

Thank you so much for having me.  

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